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09:30 am: Next Step

Okay...my experience is, when putting a story together, that the best way to get a "three dimensional" effect is to have a chart. Charts -- overlaps of ideas -- do for writing what shading does for art.


So, I've taken the Boy Scout virtues and put under them related concepts that people here or elsewhere have suggested to me. Below that, I have a list of qualities I couldn't see where to put. 

Any suggestions about where to put the unsorted qualities would be welcome! Your reason can be a stretch, so long as there's some relationship. For instance, because there was no Perseverance, I put it under "Cheerful"...keeping a cheerful attitude even when things go bad is an aspect of perseverance.







Telling the truth




Putting others before self


Supporting family and friends

Supporting family, even when they offend you





Counsel those in need

Instruct the ignorant

Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter to homeless, visit the sick, drink to the thirsty






Self-mastery of passionate emotions

Treating people with respect and dignity, no matter what

Listen to others


Being polite




Love thy neighbor

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


Comfort the afflicted




Whom to be obedient to!



“Good game” win or lose



“There is nothing so strong as anger, except that thing inside you which can hold it in.”



Bear wrongs patiently















Love God

“The kind of faith that makes miracles happen.”


Never lose faith



Love of learning


Admonish sinners




[User Picture]
Date:November 6th, 2008 04:00 pm (UTC)


Don't know if you heard this story...

Charts can indeed be very useful in writing.

Joseph Heller used a chart to plot out the characters and action when he was writing "Catch 22." To make a long story short, I saw a copy of it hanging on a wall some years back.

It looked like a spreadsheet: left vertical column had all the character names, top horizontal row (IIRC) was a time line. Filling in the grid was what the characters were doing at any given time.

Given the way the novel jumps around, it's probably the best way he could keep track.
[User Picture]
Date:November 6th, 2008 04:15 pm (UTC)

Re: Charts

That is cool!

I find that if you can chart the correct concepts, a background can really come alive...mainly because charts are usually combining two separate ideas. Once you figure out how to combine those ideas, you have a dynamic tension.
Date:November 6th, 2008 06:28 pm (UTC)
I think chastity and modesty belong under "reverence." They involve reverence and respect for the human person and the body. "Admonish sinners" belongs with "Friendly." What better favor can one person do for another? "Forgiveness" could go under either "kind" or "courteous"--but maybe sometimes it's really "brave"! Forgiveness can be a very difficult thing.
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Date:November 6th, 2008 07:15 pm (UTC)
Good suggestions all...

My only problem with the first one is that since I can only emphasize so much per city, I think the last one (Reverence) should seem really holy.

I wonder if I could put chastity and modesty under Clean, and expland it to mean Pure as well as cleanly.
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Date:November 6th, 2008 09:08 pm (UTC)
Hm... I'd put chastity and modesty under "Clean."

"Obedient" would line up with admonishing sinners, since they're aspects of the same goal(The Good), so maybe wisdom and patience as well.

"Brave"...seems that sometimes peace is just as scary as battle, and wisdom would be needed to know when to apply that bravery! ("Bravery is being scared to death...and doing it anyways")

I think Forgiveness would go under "Reverent," or maybe "Friendly."

If nothing else, you're getting a LOT of input!
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Date:November 6th, 2008 09:24 pm (UTC)

To a degree, the answers are arbitrary. One can make an argument for some of these qualities to go several places, but the very act of chosing which place they should go helps define what the place these qualities represent will be like.
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Date:November 7th, 2008 01:46 am (UTC)
Patience could be another name for half the things you have under "Cheerful".

In the context of kids, "love of learning" might fit in well with Obedience. If you did that, wisdom would also go well in that category, since wisdom is generally found by being obedient to God's commandments. (It could also go under Reverent, for much the same reason).

If you are going to put mercy under Kind, I would put forgiveness there too, since they seem much the same thing to me.

Admonishing sinners could go under Trustworthy, since it involves telling the truth when you might be tempted to lie; it could go under Helpful, because it is done to help people spiritually; or it could go under Brave, because it usually takes courage to do it.

I think I would put Peace under Friendly - being at peace with one another sounds friendly to me.

Normally I might think of Chastity and Modesty as a form of Courtesy to others, but the other things you have under Courtesy sort of focus in another direction, and I like headnoises' suggestion to put it under Clean, so I would go with that.
Date:November 7th, 2008 02:13 am (UTC)

Where to put Patience

I would put under thrifty. (You are spending your time wisely not foolishly.)
Date:November 7th, 2008 03:07 am (UTC)
Myself, I usually end up putting "Love of learning" (and potentially Wisdom as well) under Trustworthy. While, I do not think of it as worth as some of the other virtues listed, a learned man can be trusted in the area where he is learned in.

That and logic are things that I see as going hand in hand. Some years ago, I was highly suspicious of logic (mainly because I only understood its use in science and materialism, and as a fan of "Brave New World" I saw it as a destroyer of all things human). Then I read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Her characters impressed me by how honest they were. Before you can be honest with others, you have to be honest about yourself, and what you know. I saw logic as a tool of throwing out bad ideas, and also honestly tying together the good ones. I hope that was helpful/
Date:November 7th, 2008 12:17 pm (UTC)
Intellectually, I love your suggestion.

Practically, though, once I make the first city about honesty, it would be hard to include concepts too far from that, because honesty has so much I can do with it. (Picturing it from the presenting it to a kid point of view. ;-)
[User Picture]
Date:November 7th, 2008 07:55 pm (UTC)
Er...that was me. For some reason, I've been logged out when I've logged on recently.
Date:November 8th, 2008 12:54 am (UTC)
I was wondering. I've done that one before.
Date:November 8th, 2008 12:54 am (UTC)
I understand.

Honesty is the important thing. The rest, can come later in life: love of learning, etc... (for me, it was well into my 20's). I suspect that you cannot have one without the other. (perhaps, you could have a Socrates like character, who tries to make others think about things, I dunno...lol).
[User Picture]
Date:November 7th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC)


Admonish sinners = Trustworthy: tell your friends like it is, even when they don't want to hear it.

Modesty = Clean: The word modesty is rooted in mode, i.e. suiting your conduct and appearance to the appropriate mode/environment.
Modesty = Courteous: Courtesy in how you treat yourself around others.
Modesty = Obedient: obeying the conventions of your community.

Chastity = Reverent: piety with regard to God's teaching about marriage and sex.
Chastity = Clean: subset of self-discipline.
Chastity = Courteous: the courtly roots of courtesy.

Peace = Courtesy: peace makers.
Peace = Kind: peace/gentleness.
Peace = Reverent: inner stillness of prayer.

Forgiveness = Reverent: well, Christ said so: turn the other cheek.
Forgiveness = Friendly: partner of tolerance.
Forgiveness = Loyal: don't turn your back on someone for an offense they regret.

Wisdom = Thrifty: applying the knowledge gained from experience or good advice to make profitable choices in life.
Wisdom = Trustworthy: trust the advice of the wise.

Patience is mentioned elsewhere, (in response to a previous post.)

Love of learning = Reverent: God is truth; the virtue in loving to learn is studiousness, which becomes striving to better know God.
Love of learning = Cheerfulness: anything done out of love can be done cheerfully.
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