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arhyalon

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01:26 pm: Offending the Other Half

A friend suggested that I offend the other half of the Internet by posting about D&D 4.  So...why not?

At World Con, I learned something fascinating about D&D 4.

Up until now, I'd heard nothing but bad things about it. My D&D playing friends abhor it. But a guy who plays with kids told the following story:

He runs a game for kids at a local shop. He found that the modern kids have trouble following roleplaying games...unless he starts with D&D 4, which looks like their online games. Then, suddenly, they get it. Then he can lead them on to playing other games.

It's like an entry drug.

I still don't like the fact that WOFC is not supporting the earlier versions...but at least now I don't think they are crazy headless maniacs.



Comments

[User Picture]
From:juliet_winters
Date:August 13th, 2009 05:32 pm (UTC)
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Don't know anything about D & D 4. Is it a tabletop or a video game?
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From:arhyalon
Date:August 13th, 2009 05:36 pm (UTC)
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It's a roleplaying game with rules like an Online Multi-Player game.
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From:marycatelli
Date:August 13th, 2009 06:13 pm (UTC)
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Hurray for gateway drugs games!

Besides, they can spend all their money on rulebooks and figures and not have money for drugs. 0:)
From:xander25
Date:August 13th, 2009 06:46 pm (UTC)
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Amusingly, I've never played D&D. Partly because i was the only geek in my school (3/4 of a class of 60 didn't even know who even Tolkien was). Partly also due to my strong Baptist background (my parents wouldn't even let me watch the cartoon).

Now I worry that I'm not creative enough, so I simply pass whenever my friends ask me to play.
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From:arhyalon
Date:August 13th, 2009 07:06 pm (UTC)
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Nah...you'd do fine. If you don't care for it, you need not bother...but if you are ever curious, jump in with both feet. You'll probably have a great time!
[User Picture]
From:marycatelli
Date:August 13th, 2009 07:32 pm (UTC)
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It's fun!

At least while I played it, back in the first and second edition. . . I remember when only humans and gnomes could be illusionists.

The only thing I would recommend is to have someone, first off, walk you through all the dice. So you can recognize a d8, d20, etc. by shape.
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From:juliet_winters
Date:August 14th, 2009 01:01 am (UTC)
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A good referee can make all the difference. If it doesn't work out with the first one, don't be afraid to try another one.
A competent referee will make allowances for newcomers...not expect them to say too much until they are ready but make an effort to get them a turn to be involved...and keep the dice mechanics to a well-explained minimum.
[User Picture]
From:melodyv
Date:August 13th, 2009 09:59 pm (UTC)

I've only played D&D a few times but...

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My friends explained it to me.

There's an article here that sums up the actual problem: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
[User Picture]
From:dirigibletrance
Date:August 15th, 2009 03:45 am (UTC)

Re: I've only played D&D a few times but...

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That would only be valid if there were no actual, real problems with 4th edition to complain about. However, there are.
[User Picture]
From:princejvstin
Date:August 14th, 2009 09:26 am (UTC)
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4e D&D is a very different experience than previous versions of the game. I think a lot of the "quelle horror" comes in that its completely incompatible with the previous 3.5 version.

[User Picture]
From:arhyalon
Date:August 14th, 2009 10:30 am (UTC)
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Another part is that 3.5 really seemed to please the players I knew. They felt that previous bugs had finally been smoothed out and they'd finally gotten it right.
[User Picture]
From:dirigibletrance
Date:August 14th, 2009 06:01 pm (UTC)
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4th Edition isn't D&D, it's a tabletop minis battle game. It's closer to Warhammer or Warmachine now.

Pathfinder and Castles&Crusades represent all that remains of D&D. Pathfinder continues the spirit of 3.5, and Castles and Crusades continues the spirit of... 1st edition. ^_^

I highly recommend trying a game of Castles and Crusades some time, by the way.
[User Picture]
From:juliet_winters
Date:August 14th, 2009 06:45 pm (UTC)
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Pendragon is also very nice.
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From:ccr1138
Date:August 14th, 2009 08:40 pm (UTC)
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I don't agree about 4E. I love it, and I've been playing D&D since the 80s. It's certainly different from previous versions, and I'm not thrilled with ALL the changes, but I am enjoying it immensely. It's my favorite version so far. There are no impediments to roleplaying the new system, and I find it actually speeds up game mechanics. Our old 3.5 campaign often degenerated into rules-mongering about minutiae or flipping through a dozens books trying to figure out the details of some bit of arcana.
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From:ccr1138
Date:August 14th, 2009 08:31 pm (UTC)
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I love, love, love D&D 4E. I've been playing D&D for 25 years, and I've experienced all the versions through many campaigns and characters. Fourth edition has rekindled my love of the game. It's not perfect; we could nitpick its flaws endlessly. In the end, it's just FUN.

Until WotC ruins it by adding so many layers of extra rules that we get swamped by minutiae -- a bad habit of theirs.
[User Picture]
From:dirigibletrance
Date:August 15th, 2009 01:51 am (UTC)
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So, don't use the extra layers, nobody is forcing you to.

Then again, my group seems to lack most of the problems that are endemic to the majority of RPG groups, it seems. It's a combination of us all being very on-the-ball when it comes to having read the book and knowing what it says, being willing to compromise for the sake of story-flow, and also the fact that we aren't afraid of telling other players "No." when they ask for something unreasonable.
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From:arhyalon
Date:August 15th, 2009 03:46 am (UTC)

Wow

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Over 40 posts about D&D (and related) on my humble blog. I'm so proud!
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From:partywhipple
Date:August 15th, 2009 12:24 pm (UTC)

Re: Wow

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It's like a nerd Mecca. Awesome.
[User Picture]
From:partywhipple
Date:August 15th, 2009 12:27 pm (UTC)
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I have been playing 4th edition now for a number of sessions. It seems to be a bit slower than 3.5. It really seems slow when you first start, though. And the leveling kinda crawls as well. Which is too bad. I like that they really sped up leveling in 3.5 so it didn't take forever and a day to get to 10. But, honestly, I am in a new campaign with a new moderator, so the slowness may not be the games fault. I am not a fan of the extremely long skill multiple skill checks.
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From:ccr1138
Date:August 16th, 2009 03:15 am (UTC)
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In my experience, it usually takes two gaming sessions to reach 2nd level, three or four more to go to 3rd, etc. This is with canned modules. In a home game, it's slower because there's more roleplaying and people aren't on any sort of time clock. It also depends on the DM, of course. I've been with people who like to roleplay buying every meal and drink, and my current DM (thank goodness) glosses over a lot of the tedious stuff -- like long skill challenges -- in favor of massive bloodletting and mayhem.

We definitely do not miss the 3.5 requirements for training with level advancement, especially for spellcasters.

I've played with the same DM in 2E, 3E, and 4E, and with everything else being equal, I prefer 4E by a mile.
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From:kokorognosis
Date:August 16th, 2009 06:26 pm (UTC)
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Wow. I feel positively non-nerdy, like I should go throw a football or something.

Quick! Anyone! Palladium's system? Robotech source books? No? MUDs?

(My conscious D&D experience is.... limited.)
[User Picture]
From:arhyalon
Date:August 16th, 2009 07:26 pm (UTC)
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I also have not played much D&D...but I don't think Palladium is as contraversal. ;-)
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From:kokorognosis
Date:August 16th, 2009 07:27 pm (UTC)
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Lol, no. Sometimes, I think I'm just about the only one that knows the system :p
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From:dirigibletrance
Date:August 16th, 2009 08:03 pm (UTC)
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Palladium... meh. It's just a heavily house-ruled conversion of old 2nd Edition D&D. Made even more clunky and hard to use.

Kevin Sembieda makes wonderful settings, the RIFTS books were a joy to read, but actually playing them, no.

[User Picture]
From:noahdoyle
Date:August 17th, 2009 05:40 pm (UTC)
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Palladium/Robotech...oh, the agony... ;)

I've run screaming from Class/Level RPGs the past few years, Palladium gives me hives. But, having been on the selling side of the game store counter for many a year, they sell rather well and consistently, so they've got to be doing something right as far as the gaming public is concerned.

My experience with MUDs was...intense. Glad I did it, glad I got out of it.
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