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11:26 pm: Word Wondering

So…is there a relationship between the words: pert and impertinent?

Just wondering.
Anyone else up? (Sunday night, May 15th.)

Originally posted to Welcome to Arhyalon. (link)

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From:annafirtree
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:09 am (UTC)
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I'm up, but it's three hours earlier my time. (9:07pm as I write this).

It definitely seems like they are related. Being impertinent is being pert when you are expected to be quiet and demure.
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From:arhyalon
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:15 am (UTC)
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That is what I was thinking. They seem quite closely related to me. ;-)

Decided to stay up writing tonight. Just wasn't getting much done during the say, and I slept all afternoon.
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From:annafirtree
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:23 am (UTC)
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I hate it when my sleep schedule gets messed up. But then again, it's extremely rare for my kids to let me sleep at all during the day, much less all afternoon.
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From:arhyalon
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:41 am (UTC)
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My kids are a bit older. They can entertain themselves when they want to, though today, John was entertaining them.

It's not so much that my sleep schedule is off as that it is really hard to get anything done on Mondays...our school system has a half day. So I thought I'd try to get something done tonight, while I was motivated.
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From:annafirtree
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
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Yep, doing things when motivated is great. :)
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From:annafirtree
Date:May 16th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
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Or can be.
From:xander25
Date:May 16th, 2011 06:04 am (UTC)
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I'm up. Gonna catch an episode of Babylon 5 (seems to help get me through the day, lol), and then bed.
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From:filialucis
Date:May 16th, 2011 12:10 pm (UTC)
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It's an engaging idea, but the dictionary seems to disagree.

The Shorter OED says pert is derived from Old French apert, which ultimately comes from Latin apertus, past participle of aperire (= to open), while impertinent comes from Old French/Late Latin impertinens (which -- surprise, surprise, means "not pertinent"). So no relationship etymologically, though it's fun how words can come from different origins and end up with similar meanings!

Sunday night, 15 May? I was up for rather too long rereading Prospero Lost, as it happens. :)
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From:arhyalon
Date:May 16th, 2011 12:57 pm (UTC)
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Interesting! I had attempted to look up the word, but had not gone as far as going down to drag out my shortened OED!

Thanks!

(As to the other...coolation! ;-)
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From:arhyalon
Date:September 21st, 2011 12:56 pm (UTC)
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Hey...I have no idea if this will reach you, but LJ won't let me reply to your note.

I wish there was something I could do to help you. Unfortunately, Tor is not releasing Prospero In Hell in paperback until NEXT summer. (Feel free to write them and express your dismay. ;-)

My only suggestion is to try your local library. It does help authors for readers to express interest in our library editions, as it makes libraries more likely to buy our books. Then, if you like it and are feeling really generous, you can buy your own copy next summer. Otherwise, at least you will have a chance to read it, which, really, is the most important thing. ;-)
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From:filialucis
Date:September 21st, 2011 03:36 pm (UTC)
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Oh darn, I must have deactivated PMs for my account at some point! :S

Thanks so much for making the extra effort to get back to me! What a shame about the paperback release date, though. I loved Prospero Lost and have been waiting for volume two to come out in paperback (and will certainly be buying it the moment it's available). Libraries will be tricky; there isn't much demand for English-language library books in the more rural areas of continental Europe! Ah well. I'll keep an eye out for hardcovers on special offer; perhaps I'll get lucky!
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From:arhyalon
Date:September 21st, 2011 04:08 pm (UTC)
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Hmm...that is difficult. It's available in a number of electronic forms (Kindle, Nook) but if you are like me and don't have a reader, that won't help much.

My only other though, then, is that you might find a copy online used that is in the same range of price as a paperback. Other than that, I can let you know when it finally appears.

Sorry!
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From:juliet_winters
Date:May 16th, 2011 01:21 pm (UTC)
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M-W.com (Merriam Webster--free!) gives as the second definition to impertinent:
a : not restrained within due or proper bounds especially of propriety or good taste

Impertinent, according to them, to be related to pertain:

a (1) : to belong as a part, member, accessory, or product (2) : to belong as an attribute, feature, or function (3) : to belong as a duty or right b : to be appropriate to something
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<which [...] pertains?>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

M-W.com (Merriam Webster--free!) gives as the second definition to impertinent:
a : not restrained within due or proper bounds especially of propriety or good taste

Impertinent, according to them, to be related to pertain:

a (1) : to belong as a part, member, accessory, or product (2) : to belong as an attribute, feature, or function <the destruction pertaining to war> (3) : to belong as a duty or right <rights that pertain to fatherhood> b : to be appropriate to something <which rule pertains?>

roots on that are:
Middle English perteinen, from Anglo-French partenir, purteiner, from Latin pertinēre to reach to, belong, from per- through + tenēre to hold

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From:arhyalon
Date:May 16th, 2011 01:23 pm (UTC)
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Thanks. ;-)

I wondered because I had a sentence were pert or impertinent would do. ;-)
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